I wish there were an option to click the "like" button a thousand times! I believe there can plausibly be enough cross-neutralization that a tri-valent vaccine (meaning one representative of each of the three major HRV-A, -B, and -C clades) could plausibly protect against all rhinoviruses. My group is already working on adenoviruses and coronaviruses. Cold viruses must die.
There's an important basic science question, though - my starting suspicion is that the rhinovirus virion is too loose and floppy to trigger what I call the Bachmann effect:
In contrast, the polyomavirus virion (and Bachmann-flagship HPV) is held together by disulfide bonds. Polyoma is like a steel cage compared to dynamically "breathing" Rhino.
My current prediction is that a good rhino vaccine might require you to add some cysteines at key locations, so that the virus-like particle gets locked down into a more immunogenic configuration. It might sound daunting, but now there's AI. Anyone can cook.
1. What is the alcohol content of vaccine beer? I'm not a home brewer but I'm guessing that the alcohol content can adjusted during the brewing process and maybe make non-alcoholic beer with yeast that produce the viral proteins?
2. What is your guess as to the minimum amount of beer to stimulate antibodies?
3. How could a minor get the health benefit from consuming yeast with viral proteins that stimulate antibody responses without consuming too much or any alcohol?
4. Any guesses on how long antibody production lasts after drinking a beer? Would antibody production fall off but come back in the event a person was exposed to the virus in the environment?
If you need to shy away from some of the questions to avoid making a health claim that's understandable. I tried to word them to give you room to maneuver but I don't live in the medico-legal world of vaccines so I may not have asked them right.
Great questions! If I were trying to sell you a product I might have to pull my punches on health claims, but here in the comments you and I are functioning as scientists. No pulled punches here.
All that matters is the live yeast themselves. In a kitchen environment it takes a long time for the yeast to fall to the bottom of the fermenter, and I love beer - so beer-with-suspended-yeast was a good choice for me. For people who don't love beer, it'd be worth the effort to collect just the yeast.
In some of the mouse experiments, we used a centrifuge to collect the live yeast and then air-dried them overnight before giving them to the mice. Some of the mice had good immune responses to the dried yeast - but a hilarious problem with the experiment is that the mice love the dried yeast chips so much the dominant mice in the cage hogged them all for themselves. Next time we'll try mice in individual cages.
The antibody durability question is especially insightful - thanks again for commenting. It took a couple months for my antibody levels to slowly come up, but we're now at month 6 and I'm still at the same level plateau I reached at month 2. I think it means there's a complex phenomenon I call the "Bachmann effect" that gives exceptionally durable antibody responses. If it extends beyond my n-of-1 it'll be much better than the mRNA vaccines, which don't have Bachmann effects and, as we sadly all know, only last a few months.
Thanks for the link. I'll have to go back and read some of the older articles. I'm new to your Substack.
Do you plan to test others who drink your beer to get past n-of-1? What could get people to help you with that any better than free beer unless it's free beer with yeast chips?
And depending on what that showed would conducting an actual randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial be within reach?
Or does it make more sense to stay in the food lane? At least for now.
This part has been overwhelmingly challenging for my institutional scientist friends to see. We've all been stuck in the frame that the only respectable medicines are things that have been absolutely proven to be safe and effective and carefully blessed by government authorities. And while the randomized controlled trials (RCTs) are playing out nobody should be allowed to consider trying anything. Because "safety." The problem is that passively watching a decades-long RCT process play out while disease rages isn't safe. This type of false safetyism is the exact form of abuse that happened during the Tuskegee Study. We have to stop doing it.
The pandemic radicalized me on this front. People must be allowed to try stuff while absolute proof is being pursued. So the short answer is yes - institutional scientists should immediately submit vaccine yeast for FDA-supervised Investigational New Drug status and start running RCTs with large numbers of volunteers. In parallel, anyone can cook.
Could you get this tested with Clinical Trials? I know it can be manufactured at home by anyone, but what's stopping you from popularizing this as a mechanism of delivery for vaccines?
Yes - we're currently working toward an FDA Investigational New Drug application that would support the development of a formal Phase I clinical trial. The first hurdle is that I doubt FDA will see my kitchen as an acceptable food production facility - meaning we can't proceed along the usual drug approval track until we've recruited an industry partner. We've gotten some nibbles on the line - but I've also been contemplating quitting and buying a local microbrewery, as a last resort.
At this point, I haven't even tried recruiting Big Pharma to the effort. Any patents I can envision in the vac yeast arena could easily be circumvented, and without the shiny lure of monopoly power on the other side of the clinical trials pipeline, Big Pharma will just see the project as what investors call "opportunity cost."
In Europe, GMO food yeast products have to be shepherded through a byzantine regulatory vetocracy that takes many years to navigate. The standard drug approval route may be the only viable option in the EU. Interestingly, it seems like Lithuania has one of the more streamlined clinical trials pipelines for GMOs. Our collaborators there are looking into it.
Very cool, if i have some time might give this a crack but with rhinovirus VP0. Maybe conserves enough to stop some significant % of colds?
I wish there were an option to click the "like" button a thousand times! I believe there can plausibly be enough cross-neutralization that a tri-valent vaccine (meaning one representative of each of the three major HRV-A, -B, and -C clades) could plausibly protect against all rhinoviruses. My group is already working on adenoviruses and coronaviruses. Cold viruses must die.
There's an important basic science question, though - my starting suspicion is that the rhinovirus virion is too loose and floppy to trigger what I call the Bachmann effect:
https://open.substack.com/pub/cbuck/p/extraordinary-evidence-requires-extraordinary
In contrast, the polyomavirus virion (and Bachmann-flagship HPV) is held together by disulfide bonds. Polyoma is like a steel cage compared to dynamically "breathing" Rhino.
My current prediction is that a good rhino vaccine might require you to add some cysteines at key locations, so that the virus-like particle gets locked down into a more immunogenic configuration. It might sound daunting, but now there's AI. Anyone can cook.
1. What is the alcohol content of vaccine beer? I'm not a home brewer but I'm guessing that the alcohol content can adjusted during the brewing process and maybe make non-alcoholic beer with yeast that produce the viral proteins?
2. What is your guess as to the minimum amount of beer to stimulate antibodies?
3. How could a minor get the health benefit from consuming yeast with viral proteins that stimulate antibody responses without consuming too much or any alcohol?
4. Any guesses on how long antibody production lasts after drinking a beer? Would antibody production fall off but come back in the event a person was exposed to the virus in the environment?
If you need to shy away from some of the questions to avoid making a health claim that's understandable. I tried to word them to give you room to maneuver but I don't live in the medico-legal world of vaccines so I may not have asked them right.
Merry Christmas.
Great questions! If I were trying to sell you a product I might have to pull my punches on health claims, but here in the comments you and I are functioning as scientists. No pulled punches here.
All that matters is the live yeast themselves. In a kitchen environment it takes a long time for the yeast to fall to the bottom of the fermenter, and I love beer - so beer-with-suspended-yeast was a good choice for me. For people who don't love beer, it'd be worth the effort to collect just the yeast.
In some of the mouse experiments, we used a centrifuge to collect the live yeast and then air-dried them overnight before giving them to the mice. Some of the mice had good immune responses to the dried yeast - but a hilarious problem with the experiment is that the mice love the dried yeast chips so much the dominant mice in the cage hogged them all for themselves. Next time we'll try mice in individual cages.
The antibody durability question is especially insightful - thanks again for commenting. It took a couple months for my antibody levels to slowly come up, but we're now at month 6 and I'm still at the same level plateau I reached at month 2. I think it means there's a complex phenomenon I call the "Bachmann effect" that gives exceptionally durable antibody responses. If it extends beyond my n-of-1 it'll be much better than the mRNA vaccines, which don't have Bachmann effects and, as we sadly all know, only last a few months.
An older post discusses the issue in more detail:
https://cbuck.substack.com/p/extraordinary-evidence-requires-extraordinary
Thanks for the link. I'll have to go back and read some of the older articles. I'm new to your Substack.
Do you plan to test others who drink your beer to get past n-of-1? What could get people to help you with that any better than free beer unless it's free beer with yeast chips?
And depending on what that showed would conducting an actual randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial be within reach?
Or does it make more sense to stay in the food lane? At least for now.
This part has been overwhelmingly challenging for my institutional scientist friends to see. We've all been stuck in the frame that the only respectable medicines are things that have been absolutely proven to be safe and effective and carefully blessed by government authorities. And while the randomized controlled trials (RCTs) are playing out nobody should be allowed to consider trying anything. Because "safety." The problem is that passively watching a decades-long RCT process play out while disease rages isn't safe. This type of false safetyism is the exact form of abuse that happened during the Tuskegee Study. We have to stop doing it.
The pandemic radicalized me on this front. People must be allowed to try stuff while absolute proof is being pursued. So the short answer is yes - institutional scientists should immediately submit vaccine yeast for FDA-supervised Investigational New Drug status and start running RCTs with large numbers of volunteers. In parallel, anyone can cook.
https://cbuck.substack.com/p/the-freedom-to-choose-medicine-is
https://cbuck.substack.com/p/mint-vs-covid-a-culinary-perspective
https://cbuck.substack.com/p/consumer-reports-for-medicines
Could you get this tested with Clinical Trials? I know it can be manufactured at home by anyone, but what's stopping you from popularizing this as a mechanism of delivery for vaccines?
Yes - we're currently working toward an FDA Investigational New Drug application that would support the development of a formal Phase I clinical trial. The first hurdle is that I doubt FDA will see my kitchen as an acceptable food production facility - meaning we can't proceed along the usual drug approval track until we've recruited an industry partner. We've gotten some nibbles on the line - but I've also been contemplating quitting and buying a local microbrewery, as a last resort.
At this point, I haven't even tried recruiting Big Pharma to the effort. Any patents I can envision in the vac yeast arena could easily be circumvented, and without the shiny lure of monopoly power on the other side of the clinical trials pipeline, Big Pharma will just see the project as what investors call "opportunity cost."
In Europe, GMO food yeast products have to be shepherded through a byzantine regulatory vetocracy that takes many years to navigate. The standard drug approval route may be the only viable option in the EU. Interestingly, it seems like Lithuania has one of the more streamlined clinical trials pipelines for GMOs. Our collaborators there are looking into it.